Trolls and Taurens: Racist stereotypes in World of Warcraft?
Matt Ruff thinks the race characterizations in World of Warcraft are offensive. But is he relying too much on real-world assumptions when judging this fictional universe?
Via Fred, I see Matt Ruff talks about racism in World of Warcraft.
For my first World of Warcraft character, I decided to play a troll of the hunter class. About an hour into the game I got sent on a quest to a seaside village called Sen’Jin, populated by my fellow trolls, and while interacting with the non-player characters I realized that we were all speaking with Haitian accents. A particular shade of Haitian accent, seemed like: repeatedly, as I finished an exchange with a quest-giver or a shopkeeper, I was warned to “Stay away from the voodoo, mon.” Gee, I thought, that’s odd. Why would trolls talk like black people?
Seeking answers, I turned to the racial history section of the WoW manual, and read the following: “The vicious trolls that populate the numerous jungle isles of the South Seas are renowned for their cruelty and dark mysticism. Barbarous and superstitious, they carry a seething hatred for all other races…” Ah, I thought, of course. That explains it. Trolls talk like black people because they’re superstitious jungle savages.
[ * * * ]
Taurens, as their name suggests, are a minotaur-like species (although my female druid looks more like a bipedal dairy cow). But they really should have been modeled on bison rather than cattle, because it turns out Taurens are actually Native Americans of the Mix-n-Match tribe. Environmentally conscious citizens of the plains, they live in both tipis and longhouses, and carve totem poles. And their signature greeting is “How!”, an expression I haven’t heard since the days of F-Troop. [ WoW ]
A couple of simple things. Trolls are not superstitious because they believe in voodoo. I’ve killed plenty of monsters in-game with my own voodoo to know that magic is real. At least in Azeroth. Secondly, male minotaurs are humanoid bulls. Which are male cattle. What do you expect a female minotaur to look like? Now, to the deeper argument.
Thinking accents and cultural accouterments are offensive in and of themselves is a common mistake. But if you treat other accents and cultures as too potentially embarrassing to represent, what you’re really saying is that these things are handicaps and it’s not polite to point them out. The trolls don’t speak in broken, pidgin English. They just speak with an accent. And they tell you to “stay away from the voodoo” not because they’re superstitious savages but because they know what they’re talking about.
Fantasy in large part depends on appropriating human culture and that means building off of human stereotypes. And that means working with racial stereotypes. The question is this: do you treat those racial stereotypes with respect, or do you turn them into racist stereotypes by using them to mock different cultures?
When it comes to the appropriation of accent and culture in a fantasy realm, the concern is not “do the trolls sound black” but “does it sound like we’re making fun of black people when a troll speaks.” Or, for that matter, when a tauren speaks. I don’t have the player demographics here — can’t find ‘em — so I can’t say whether or not black players are staying away in droves because they’re offended by the use of something other than white people’s accents. But I don’t get the sense that racism is intended, and Blizzard seems to have treated the development of content for all races with quite a bit of respect — especially those like the orc, tauren, and troll that are based on tribal cultures. The trolls may be black, but they don’t jump Jim Crow. And the taurens may say “how,” but their similarity to F-Troop indians pretty much ends there.
Since reading The Horde is Evil I’ve been paying close attention the narrative of the Horde vs. Alliance story in World of Warcraft. I’m impressed by how complicated it is. In addition to good vs. evil, we also seem to have a civilization vs. indigenous culture arc. The taurens, trolls, and orcs are indigenous cultures who oppose the Alliance races because they feel the Alliance is taking their territory and does not honor their culture. The mostly hierarchical Alliance fear the tribal Horde races because the Horde races resist being absorbed and made subservient to the human and night elf notions of civilization.
There are two evil races in the Horde — the Forsaken (or zombies) and the Blood Elves. Both of these use the tribal cultures and their oppression by the Alliance of the Horde to their own advantage. I do not know if the story will be around long enough to see this played out, but already I see signs of a fracture between the more human-like races of the Horde and the tribal cultures; also, connections are being made between the two factions. It’s not uncommon, for example, to see Tauren and Night Elf NPCs working together in protection of the natural world of Azeroth.
My point is this: the races of World of Warcraft represent many diverse cultures which might seem racist at the first and briefest of glosses. But there is a depth and complexity here that suggests the use and appropriation of different ethnic groups represent a serious attempt at theme that goes beyond good versus evil. Blizzard not only acknowledges the existence of different cultures — something most fantasy games don’t attempt — they treat them with respect and use them to seriously consider the embarrassing (and ongoing) exploitation, subjugation, and disrespect for indigenous people.
Blizzard may have said that the Trolls are savage and live in the jungle, but it was Matt — not Blizzard — who reduced that in his mind to nothing more than “superstitious jungle-dwelling savages.”
Now, as I said: I’m not black. I think if I were black I’d be pleased to see that I can play a character who comes from my own tribal background instead of pretending that black people rode around killing Saxons with King Arthur — as long as I’m not reduced to being Sambo in the process. I think Blizzard has done a fine job of this, and it’s only a cursory look at the game combined with an assumption that using any non-white accent is racist that lends itself to any other interpretation.
That said, the comments are open. Am I off-base here? Is Blizzard’s use offensive to you?
Comments (Post a Comment)
08/13/07 11:21 AM
Incidentally, I’d qualify the troll accent as Jamaican as opposed to Haitian. No French in that particular sound. It’s a pity it’s not more authentic. It’s decent, but I feel like they probably should have gotten a patois speaker to record the troll voices.
08/13/07 11:24 AM
My ear is not as finely tuned as that, but you’re right. If you’re going to do the accent, find someone who can do the accent right.
08/14/07 12:25 AM
I haven’t played Wow yet, but I have played WarCraft <span class=“caps”>III, </span>so I know what you’re talking about, although I never necessarily made the connection between Jungle Trolls and people of Jamaican origin until I read it on on Wikipedia, although I did notice a similarity between the enslavement of Orcs and their forced arrival on Azeroth and the people who were victimized by the slave trade hundreds of years ago, how they had fought for their freedom (in the orcs’ case, though, it was from two masters), especially in the case of the Warchief Thrall liberating orcs from Alliance Internment camps. I noticed how even after the Orcs were free, they still bore an mutual animosity towards the Alliance that has endured for decades. To me, this mirrors the rampant racism that existed unchecked in the US many years ago. It goes to show that, like the founding fathers, the Alliance is not as pure and pristine as it once claimed to be.
08/17/07 10:14 AM
Like star trek:
Kilngons were blacks
Ferengi were jews (money, big noes and ears)
Vulcans were asians (cold, good at math, good skin)
08/22/07 04:49 PM
Its all about from which side you look from. To make a real world analogy. Lets say the taliban. There evil right? Now imagine you are a taliban warrior (leaving religiouse vieuws aside here). Are you evil? No! Who is evil in your world? The US/UN!. Its all a matter of perspective.
peace!
08/24/07 08:35 AM
Thrall, I think you’re right at least where World of Warcraft is concerned; in the complex real world, political forces rarely think of themselves as evil. But fictional creations often do. I don’t think Sauron thought of himself as particularly righteous, for example.
People who are used to thinking in this literary good-v-evil mode might have difficulty accepting that “evil” is in the eye of the beholder.
09/10/07 05:43 PM
Im Scottish and i find the Accents of the Dwarven race not only adding flavour and value to the culture of the game but i take pride in the fact that we are included.
And afaik the accents of the Trolls arent pinned down to any particular island, just Caribbean.
09/11/07 10:17 AM
I’m black, and i’ve played <span class=“caps”>WOW </span>for some time. It’s all about choice in my mind really. If I can live in a world where there are saxons killing another party i’d want to be part of that, maybe. Or alteratively i’d like to be part of the voodoo wielding Jamaican sounding, beach loving clan. While none of the parties involved is treated as inferior to one and other, the game doesn’t allow for choice. If black then play Troll. What if i wanted to be a black sword wielding knight? What there where no black sword wielding knights? Right, and voodoo wielding trolls are a dime a dozen right? Just open your history books. Immersion only goes so far if real world race is represented in a game.
The point is that the racism comes in play in the roles that people can play. You want to be reasonable, ordered? better be white. Violent, brew brewing needle sticking? black is your color then.
For once I would like the division be across the line of ideals in stead of color.
09/11/07 10:24 AM
I can see where you’re coming from, Patrick. It’s been a while since I played a non-horde character, though — doesn’t <span class=“caps”>WOW </span>offer quite an array of skin tones for the humans? I think the game does allow for a great deal of choice — maybe not in terms of voice packs. Or, for that matter, body shape.
09/11/07 10:46 AM
Of course, one could always play as a dark skinned white guy……………….But not as a black guy ( nose, lips, hair!) this site sums being into fantasy and being black all up I think.
http://www.infinitematrix.net/faq/essays/noles.html
09/11/07 10:10 PM
I think the point you’re also missing is that the racism is not only from the stereotyping [which is based on culturally indoctrinated stereotypes, that have less basis in reality than would an amalgamation of culture] but also from the fact that the native american/ black representation in wow is as not only non-human creatures, but also fully primitive.
09/12/07 05:56 AM
Why do you call the Taurens and Trolls “fully primitive”? They have fully developed religion, they have fully developed language. They have complex social structures. They are literate, and can participate in all career branches available in the game, including engineering. (Yeesh, the number of letters I’ve carried as a troll….)
As I mentioned above, I see Blizzard developing a storyline that seems to mirror the European conquest of indigenous people; and they are not nearly as sympathetic to the forces of so-called “civilization” as I thought they would be. I think the narrative’s position, and my position as well, is that the notion of indigenous people as primitive is wholly off the mark.
09/13/07 04:32 AM
Mmmmmm, I can’t really remember the fully developed Troll city……. The Tauren had theirs, the orcs had theirs, but the trolls had to do with that fishing village.
So fully developed? I think not. And primitive in tha fact that new discoveries are rarely incorporated in their daily lives. <span class=“caps”>I.E. </span>reed armor against chainmail ( if i remember correctly, it has been a while).
Full points on the inability to blay black humans.
09/13/07 07:36 AM
If I remember the WoW lore, the trolls have been displaced for a very long time thanks in large part to the ongoing wars with the alliance. So you could interpret it as “the trolls don’t have a major city” or “the trolls are the victims of generations of attempted genocide.”
Patrick, I really don’t get what you’re talking about in the “inability to play black humans.” I just spent a few minutes playing with the character creation in WoW and it seems most of the — what, five? — faces available work well with a lot of different skin tones. Things are a little more rough if you’re playing a female black character, but the faces definitely don’t strike me as exclusively caucasoid. (Um, but the hair styles are very limiting….)
And I don’t know if trolls wear chain mail or an effective reed equivalent; the stats aren’t different and the effect isn’t different, so why they should be judged “primitive” based on that escapes me.
I think we’re clearly digging deep into the weeds at this point to find evidence of racism, which suggests to me that it’s not as blatant as people think.
09/13/07 09:40 AM
Okay I get it. I think. Perhaps I should apologize for englis not being my first language ( nor my second mind you). I did not mean to suggest that there is any racism in the setting of <span class=“caps”>WOW.</span> I agree with Matt Ruff that the design choices could alienate some of the demographic. but in the setting of the game everything is beautifully balanced. Its when we take te game and hold it against the real world that the ,errrrmmmmm for the lack of a better word i’ll just call them flaws, come to light. So no as a troll has been i don’t feel discriminated against, and if i did i could roll a new character.
there are two ways to do this ( or imagine it) one is a character that’s an extension of you, the other way is an character that’s nothing like you. I could play a redhaired human paladin female.
The trouble for me starts if i want to play me, or an idealized extention of me in the game.
Just like the movies of the seventies where black people could only be pimps and or ho’s, the game limits me.Just like that changedin the movies and is changing in the literature ( You should try the Malazan book of the fallen it will blow your mind!), it will change in gaming i hope.
I want to play a Nelson Mandela type of character or a Kofi Anan type of character, while every single black like character in fantasy games is a Shaquille o’neil type. Yes I am 6 foot in height and in shape, doesn’t mean i’m a barbarian at heart though.
09/13/07 09:44 AM
That makes more sense to me, Patrick. Actually, I was thinking about this after posting my comment — if I want to play a bookish English gentleman-type wizard human I’m pretty much screwed. There’s zero control over body type, so even the mages look buff.
09/13/07 10:08 AM
excaclty my point, if you bring that over to my view of the world, playing a black bookish anything is out of the question. Btw, I think we’re having a sensible polite discussion on race onthe internet, wonders never cease it seems.
09/23/07 06:25 AM
Forgive me for dredging up an old topic, but I stumbled across this blog while discussing this issue with my girlfriend. I’m an African-American, and I just started playing WoW again after quitting a couple of weeks after launch (played through closed beta and open as well). I found the comments here very civilized, and it sparked quite a few things to think about. Sometimes tend to be over-sensitive or hyper critical when culture comes into play in such things as video games. I say culture because one thing Warcraft and other fantasy games have portrayed far more accurately than the real world does is what race truly is. If we were all suddenly transported to Azeroth and a African-Jamaican met a Troll, I don’t think that Troll would see a counterpart. He’d see another human and automatically assume he or she was an Alliance member. I think the way we use the word “race” is as outdated as the circumstances that spawned the concept in the first place (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race#17th_and_18th_century) I think in most cases cultures are simply attached to their most prominent feature. The troll’s area is jungle, but also tropical. Ask anyone to name somewhere tropical, and the first place they’re going to name is probably somewhere in the Caribbean. They could’ve made it hawaii or even Pacific Asian, but most people don’t identify those regions with the word “tropical” The same with Tauren and Orcs. Both are extremely spiritual and shamanistic. When I think of spiritual (why we equate this word with primitive is another topic of debate), I think of tribes where “separation of church and state” isn’t an issue. Sure they could have made the Orcs and Tauren like the Celts or the Norse (though now that I think about it, Orcs also have a lot in common with Norse hierarchy as well), but mention the word “tribe” and people don’t think or these, they think of those cultures with which such connotations have been permanently attached. So my advice is to try not to read so much into such things. I know it’s hard to – I have to constantly fight the habit to search for racist displays or tendencies in things or situations. The society we are in perpetuates such thinking, but reflecting it back merely feeds the flame, it doesn’t extinguish it. This is already longer than I intended, but an excellent article Thudfactor and great comments Patrick. English is my first language (with French and Esperanto following behind) and I don’t think I could have conveyed such thoughts that well!
09/23/07 06:31 AM
I would also like to add, that I was more annoyed by the lack of slender built men than face or hair selection. I’m 178cm and and 150 lbs. Why would I want to play a buff mage? http://othud.site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
10/12/07 09:51 AM
The Only thing ill say is that the fact that you think Jamaican sounding trolls represent a race of people is racist in and of it self. What blizzard was trying to do was give the game itself some diversity. Not mimic this world. Your thinkin is of base. Next you will be saying that dark skin humans are not realistic because the speak the kings english…..
10/12/07 09:54 AM
Loh, you ought to read the whole post.
10/12/07 10:14 AM
I did read the whole post and im saying that the premise is off because your saying that trolls represent black people because they talk with jamaican accents and are tribal. I did not take it that way. Trolls are characters in the game. A game that has similarities to ours but is not the same. In the real world we have many different speaking and sounding people, its not a big deal. So why is this…. Now if when you chose a dark skin for character he began to act stereotypical… Then that my friend would be racist…
10/18/07 12:08 PM
I agree with Loh – people in the real world also aren’t always defined by their accent.. I’ve played WoW with a number of other players, and accents have always come up in discussion – like u’ll find on and offline, people converse with all types of people and often pick up accents from places they’re not native to..
In addition the whole good vs evil thing? that’s bs.. I’ve heard people talk about the horde being the bad guys (probably because of watching too many kids cartoons whereas ‘monsters’ as they call them are the bad guys..) but in fact if u try actually playing as the horde u’ll see that in the narrative their story makes them equal to the alliance.. In fact I’d say the alliance is almost a fair example of the human race as a whole – They destroy other life-forms and each other (ie. the forsaken) with no worries! <sup>_</sup>
The point of an MoRPG tho is that users take the narrative into their own hands and act out the story, meaning they can choose how they go about playing the game, the tasks they choose to take part in and of course how they view the other races.. Much like they can choose to be a nice person, or an annoyance.. Some even role-play as if they’re actually part of the story in quite some depth
Being a media student I also know that topics like this rarely see an end because something nearly always links to something else.. such media debates are a kinda on-going spirals which depend on personal opinions that people like to bitch about who’s right and wrong.. So, its a choice whether people want to view WoW as a racist game and those that do should consider; are they just racist themselves?
Btw. I’m not interested in anyone having a go at what I wrote cuz i’ll prolly never be back here, just fancied something to occupy my mind while I’m going thru a bad time http://othud.site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
10/20/07 03:19 AM
Just for the note Forsaken aren’t evil, they are about as evil as any other race. They are merely undead who broke away from the Lich King’s influence and are trying to survive themselves, the scourge, yes, the forsaken, no.
10/24/07 09:05 AM
Exactly Krasus.. my point was that the alliance abandoned them, and now strive to wipe them out, even tho they used to be human too..
Sure they have a depressed theme to their sound emotes but still thats like saying right everyone with a negative attitude should die :p
For anyone that doesn’t know the story:
The alliance began hunting the undead (who weren’t under evil’s influence) and forced them to join the Horde..
However the undead who <span class=“caps”>ARE </span>under the influence of evil are hunted by both the horde <span class=“caps”>AND </span>alliance.. so go figure what your answer is to who’s good and evil http://othud.site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif
10/24/07 01:01 PM
<span class=“caps”>MMM</span> Glenn and Loh, in my post ( one of them at least) I’ve stated that “when held to the real world the flaws become apparent” Reading Loh’s reaction I can deduce that you didn’t read trough all the replies. And finding one exception really doesn’t disprove ( or prove for that matter) anything.
And Yes people are classified by their accents, how else can you distinguish an irishman from a Whelshman?
And yes Glen, rarely a conclusion is reached from this kind of discussion, discussion is nessesary however to get insight in an other persons mind and motivations. In this case I meant to give some insight in playing <span class=“caps”>MMORPG’</span>s as a black person. Or any kind of <span class=“caps”>RPG’</span>s for that matter.
10/24/07 03:12 PM
Cool.. I can see the conclusions to my next essay already, lol :p
11/07/07 01:30 PM
Irish and welsh are similar accents.. :s
Or was that the point, that people can be mistaken..?
I barely covered anything about accent because I didn’t see the point in discussing it further.. My point on accent was merely that people don’t necessarily talk in their native accent.. as I was talking about conversations with people’s real-life voices (over such programs as TeamSpeak).. people who migrate to foreign countries obviously will begin to pick up accents from others – as i know from personal experience (+ it’s common sense)..
I don’t think you meant to say that people will always be defined by their accent as this isn’t really debatable :s
anyways I only agreed with Loh in the first place because he said that the accent does not represent real-world black people – because there are going to be white people that can speak with the same accent and be born to the same land.. The Jamaican ‘theme’ is obviously a matter of opinion as some people have taken that literally and other like Loh did not..
So in case I wasn’t clear I agree that trolls do <span class=“caps”>NOT </span>represent black people.
I still feel no different about my original post and nothing will change that.. I feel I constantly have to repeat myself just to make a point here so this is my last post http://othud.site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
Sorry if some parts weren’t explained clearly, but i wasn’t aiming on writing an academic paper on it! so hopefully I’ve explained my logic..
Cheers ^^
01/14/08 01:03 PM
For the record, Blood Elves and Forsaken aren’t evil. Kael’thas is definitely evil (I mean, he works for Kil’jaeden now), and the Forsaken Royal Apothecary Society wants to wipe all humans from the face of Azeroth (and that’s pretty damn evil), but the average Joe Pointy-ears/Joe Walkingcorpse is not like that. Voren’thal the Seer of the Scryer faction ditched Kael’thas after receiving a vision of A’dal (Naaru & leader in Shattrath City), taking the very best Blood Elf soldiers in Outland with him. Leonid Bartholemew the Revered is a Forsaken undead who joined the Argent Dawn who seeks to turn back the Scourge and free the former Lordaeron from its grip. Granted, both races are bloodthirsty, but if I woke up one day and my home city was in ruins, or if I found that I was an undead monster, I’d be pretty pissed too. And thankfully the vast majority of both races has their anger pointed in the right direction (at Arthas & the Scourge, and the Burning Legion).
04/07/08 06:10 AM
WoW This is a really good conversation. I’m amazed that it took place as civil as this, usually WoW players get all flamed up when someone dares to imply that there game might have something to do with race. In hopes that discussion continues are at least stay here I will keep it going with my thoughts.
@Glen and Loh- Glen you say you are a student yet at the same time you bash the process of civil discusion. This makes me wonder how you really call yourself an academic as people adding thier own opinions and debates to arguments and discussion is largely how the foundation for all academic study. Don’t believe me? Google Christianty vs Aethism and shoot me an email when people stop “bitching” about that topic. Just because someone discusses the processes, functions, occurences, and effects of race in a <span class=“caps”>MMORPG </span>dont make them a racist.
2. Saying The troll are based on african and caribbean cultures <span class=“caps”>DOES NOT EQUAL SAYING THE TROLLS ARE BLACK PEOPLE </span>or vice versa . IF <span class=“caps”>YOU CANT UNDERSTAND THIS</span> GO <span class=“caps”>READ</span> A <span class=“caps”>BOOK.</span> This is just a observation and one that happens to be indisputably accurate. The Academic looks at this not getting mad and crying racism but by extraplating on what my be the social and physchological effects of having a race of primitive barbaric non-humans acting and talking in a way that is obviously based on a real world culture.
3. I am not saying this in an angry black guy way…..but the game is and <span class=“caps”>MUST</span> BE <span class=“caps”>RACIST. </span>(No I am not offended are mad at blizzard) It is only logical because it assigns you a culturally background then tells you what your values are, how others percieve you, what you like, dislike, care about, and gives you little chance to effectively change these things. I know you could say all games do this but when your play Solid Snake on your <span class=“caps”>PS2 </span>you are Solid you take on his persona, history style and moves. When you customize and level your charcater in WoW your’e not running around ganking people as some Generic toon. No You Become <span class=“caps”>BLACKFEET</span>! Level 70 arena geared hunter, black guy Tauren, alliance killer. In effect for as long as you are experiencing the world he is you and you are him. But what if you get tired of hanging out with your hordies in the hood…I mean hut..could you simply befriend some technological and civilized humans..Or are your values and biases along with other players dictacted to you by the game?
For More on this
Cybernigga
http://aniggaincyberspace.com | chuckbaby58@yahoo.com | 4.235.184.13
http://aniggaincyberspace.com/2008/04/07/collecting-world-of-warcraft-and-second-life-stories/ .
*I am also writing a paper on the experiences of race in <span class=“caps”>MMORPGS </span>and I’m collecting stories at my website.
04/09/08 08:30 AM
I wasn’t ‘having a bash’ at people discussing this, I simply pointed out I didn’t want people having a go at me for saying anything they didn’t agree with because that’s what happened on a similar topic. Also I pointed out that media debates don’t usually come to an end because they can and do link to so many other things. But thanks for backing up my points, it just takes some time to get the point across some times http://othud.site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
I do however think that the racism is more to do with which faction the player plays as, I mean as an ex-horde player I used to like playing horde because they were easy to relate to in my social background of having a crap time in life and trying to make something of it. Whereas Alliance reminded me too much of real life human influence and self destruction on the world. Though I guess others must play certain classes to preference. This seems to have been balanced out a little more with the burning crusade’s Bloodelves though.. hence being such a popular first choice of class in a lot of servers.
04/10/08 04:58 PM
It would be cool if it were more like your class only effects your past ad your attributes not who you can team up with or who you had to fight. I think Eve online is like this And I’m gonna try it out soon.
I wasn’t attempting to “flame” you or anything I just hate to see how everyone always gets mad whenever someone questions whether race and racial implications can exist in a game. “It’s just a game they say” but that doesn’t mean it’s exempt from the effects of the real world and vice versa.
As a side note ever speel Worgen backwards. Negrow. What are worgens? A group of chained demi-humans with a white overseer. Now I’m not saying Blizzard is racists and I’m pretty sure it’s not but that doesn’t mean people won’t see a Racial context in the game.
please send me any racial experiences in WoW at http://aniggaincyberspace.com/2008/04/07/collecting-world-of…; .
04/14/08 12:24 PM
I play a troll in Warcraft and he is a geared hunter level 70 and the whole time iv been playing i never thought of it like that.. i always thought that was how all trolls in the game speak even forest trolls(zul’jin and the amani) and sand trolls. “superstitious jungle savages” that would be if your only talking about jungle trolls but sencethere are many diffrent kinds of trolls compareing them the Hations and Jamaicans doesnt work sure.. the Accent sounds the same but they had to make them sound like somthing.. right?
04/15/08 01:08 AM
@MattG-What’s your point even if all trolls dont talk that way the ones who do are still uneducated jungle savages. Which still equals the coupling of Jamaicain Haitian culture with “jungle savages”. Whether it applies to all trolls are just the “uneducated jungle savages” is besides the point.
Also your last line should read they had to sound like someoone..right? Not Something. And yes they did have to sound like something but why not couple the “jungle savages” with a white european cultural background why choose haitian or Jamaican.
04/15/08 06:47 AM
I’m with Matt G. on this. I’ve been playing a troll mage for ages and have never considered the character “uneducated” or “savage.” Personally I think you’re giving the “uneducated savage” a bad rap. Trolls have writing, they have formalized religion (or they wouldn’t have priests), they have an academic, scientific approach to magic (or there wouldn’t be mages), every profession is open to them, they have a distinct architecture suited to their climate, they have political delegations that are treated, as near as I can tell, as equals by the other members of the Horde.
They are, in fact, as fully capable and intelligent as any other race in the game. My question is this: if you can see all of that, but still interpret the Jamaican accent as “jungle savage,” what are you really suggesting? That the Jamaicans are jungle savages?
04/15/08 10:19 PM
LoL
@Thudfactor are you reading??? No offense but I’m not saying this to be inciteful or anything. I like your blog.
All I’m saying is the game developers chose to couple “Barbarous and superstitious, they carry a seething hatred for all other racesââ¬Â¦Ã¢â¬Â
with the haitian background. I’m not saying that makes them racists just stating the facts. I didn’t interpret it as this the source book says it.
04/16/08 05:53 AM
The sourcebook may say that, but the actual game experience is quite different. “Barbarous and superstitious” simply doesn’t fit the way the trolls — at least player character trolls — are portrayed in the game. “Barbarous” seems like it could apply to anyone else in the game with the possible exception of the elves, at least by 21st century standards. And “superstitious” doesn’t even make any sense in a fictional environment where magic and gods are demonstrably real.
I think you are giving far more weight to one sentence than Blizzard, because the trolls never seem to live up to that stereotype. It’s less a guide to character and more a writer who got carried away.
04/16/08 12:57 PM
I think you are giving far more weight to one sentence than Blizzard, because the trolls never seem to live up to that stereotype. It’s less a guide to character and more a writer who got carried away.
Lol! You might be right there especially the writer part. Still though my point remains that they connected a Non-Western, Non technological race with Jamacain and Haitian Culture.
09/01/08 03:23 AM
What a society we live in.
The window I am typing into right now is white, which obviously implies Nazism and white supremacy. I am going to have this website shut down for promoting racism, and am going to make it clear that this is George Bush’s doing.
Let’s face it, the only reason anyone does anything is because they are being controlled by evil racist fascists like George Bush who brain wash them. It’s true, by typing this comment, I have contributed to an evil racist plot against my knowledge.
My god. The night sky is black. How racist.
09/01/08 08:22 AM
Obviously someone is arguing with the voices in his head rather than anyone who’s posted here.
10/20/08 10:43 AM
Forgive me for digging up this topic… But this is what I think.
All of you are having the topic of debate of trolls representing blacks because of an accent and a certain racial background. Are you saying all blacks are savages? Because, I’d have to disagree.
Anyway, here’s my view on it. I’m a Night Elf, never really bothered with much of anything else… However.
Trolls are a badass race.
Jamaicans have a badass accent.
Enough said.
10/20/08 12:40 PM
Aluciena, I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that all blacks are savages. What gives you that impression?
05/22/09 05:35 PM
Why is it the same people who criticize the Troll and Tauren protrayals never have a thing to say about the Dwarves’ Scottish accents? It’s fantasy, people. Accents are simply used to add some characterization and uniqueness to characters; it’s not a comment on anyone’s racial status, white, black, native, or anything else. Just enjoy the game for what it is, a game, and stop complaining.
06/16/09 06:30 PM
@ thrall (near the top of the comments). No, there is a difference between relative good and evil and brainwashing. The Taliban considers themselves to be good, but they are not, and that’s not just personal beliefs. They are brainwashed, you can believe that you can inhale nothing but chairs and exhale beautiful ponies, but you know what? You’d be a freaking nutcase (don’t ask me where that analogy came from, but it serves its purpose). Just ‘believing’ you are something, doesn’t make it true, logical proof does. Taliban… no, evil, deal with it.
06/16/09 06:40 PM
Also, synopsis of story starting with WCIII (I and II are a different conversation).
Orcs go to Kalimdor (mostly unexplored continent to the west), they meet tauren. Cult shows up in Lordaeron (part of the Eastern Kingdoms, the continent to the east) they turn most of the kingdom undead. Arthas (prince and paladin of the light) chases a demon lord responsible for all this crap to Northrend (the only other continent, a frozen wasteland in the north) and succumbs to evil, becoming a death knight.
Orcs meet tauren, they become buddies. Arthas attacks Silvermoon and destroys the sunwell (most high elves die, few that remain are called blood elves now and follow prince Kael’thas). Night elves are concerned with protecting the ‘world tree’ from archimonde (a major demon), he attacks, world tree is destroyed, but archimonde is defeated. Illidan, a night elf (half demon by choice) outcast begins trying to destroy the frozen throne (the seat of the lich king, the demon’s liason for evil on azeroth) by sundering the very earth of azeroth itself. He is stopped by other night elves misunderstanding his intentions.
While the lich king is weakened due to illidans efforts, some of his undead break free of his control (the forsaken), led by Sylvanis, a noble ranger turned banshee by arthas when he pillaged silvermoon, the forsaken seek to destroy the scourge (remaining undead under arthas’ control) and all life on azeroth.
Also, some aliens crash into azeroth on a space ship, and there we have the draenei, yeah, great plot point there…
Although the horde (orcs, trolls, tauren, forsaken, and blood elves) really have the same goals as the alliance (humans, dwarves, night elves, gnomes, and draenei) except of course the forsaken who want to kill everyone, they all just want to eradicate the scourge. The blood elves also want more magic, but they have a lust for revenge against the scourge as well for destroying their homeland and making them rely on ‘evil’ magics to fuel their power.
There’s lots more, but I think that’s enough explanation inform anyone about what the hell happened.
09/25/09 07:14 AM
So what your saying is Trolls sound like Black people. Jamaican would be the right thing to say. Because Black people from all over the world do NOT sound alike Go to France, Brazil, The UK or go around Africa. So saying Trolls sound like blacks is extremely False. If you want to be more Specific Say Jamaican Because That would make more sense…
12/31/09 06:50 PM
This could’ve been a good discussion, but as usual people aren’t open to discussing subtle racism because they decide to feel attacked at the idea something may be racist.
There is quite a bit of subtle racism found on the Horde side.
A few examples are the Orcs, the Trolls, and the Barrens.
Orcs have clear cut and indisputable African hairstyles, they’re also historically racist descriptions of Africans. This is indisputable and has been around for ages.
Trolls I pay less attention to because they’re a rather weak example. The accent is obvious, but they’re so unlike humans that they’re best left out of the discussion.
The Barrens is an African savanna, anyone pretending not to be able to see that has a screw loose.
There is subtle racism in World of Warcraft. That said I am a black player and I do choose to ignore it for the sake of my own entertainment.
The computer and internet worlds are some of the most blatantly racist groups I’ve ever had the displeasure of coming across. So to pretend there’s no racism within those groups is just silly. I used to take a programming class and almost the entire class including the instructor spent the whole period finding ways to make fun of me because my skin is brown.
World of Warcraft does make up for it’s subtle racism in a way by the inclusion of other skin tones on the human side. You can play a black human. The only human you can’t play is Asian, which I do find irritating, but I’m not Asian so there’s no much I can really say on that.
Blizzard over time has been listening to complaints about their game, that’s for sure. Gnomes previously could get no darker than tan, the other day I made my first dark brown gnome, much darker than my own skin. So even they know their game was lacking and it’s still lacking in areas.
Should they overhaul the Horde? Probably. Will they? Doubtful. Will I bitch about it? Nah.
The Alliance side having at least some options weakens the argument of racism which is why it’s subtle racism that does exist, but isn’t as easy to fight or complain about.
One of my pet peeves is when people pretend subtle racism does not exist. It’s obvious there are racist elements in the early areas of the game, but it is possible to ignore it and find the game enjoyable.
The real question is: Why did they add even the subtle racism in the first place?
Was there a reason to make the Barrens an African savanna instead of something otherworldly which would’ve added to the game instead of making black players feel alienated? Was there a reason to give orcs African hairstyles? Why even include orcs as described knowing full well their history is based upon racism?
Subtle racism becomes blatant racism, so the issue does matter. Plenty of kids play this game, they do make comments about orcs being black and the Barrens being Africa. Many WoW players make racist comments even on the forums.
To pretend there’s no racism surrounding World of Warcraft just makes me shake my head. It goes much deeper than the game. It’s planting a seed for racist teenagers to become racist adults. There is a breeding ground in WoW.
Why it’s there is beyond me, especially since the brown population in the US is growing, and already far exceeds the population of those with white skin.
Hating people with brown skin will do white people more harm than it will black, indian, native american, asian, or hispanic people.
All of that aside race doesn’t exist among humans in the first place and it only proves how ignorant the American education system truly is.
Example of race: A deer and a moose. Two different races within the same species.
Humans don’t have extreme differences within our species to denote a separation of race. The bastardization of the word race is used in our society to keep us all under control. Divide and conquer is an age old technique. If we weren’t so busy being divided by race we might start to pay attention to how we’re all busy working from 9-5 while there are freeloaders living like kings on our backs.
We might notice our government is a joke and we’re still living under a monarchy.
Lets keep hating each other. Wouldn’t want to upset the system.
Kudos to you Blizzard. You’re tools, but your game is fun, racism aside. Don’t know what any of you get out of it, but hey keep it up.
01/01/10 01:54 PM
@Sad:
I’m also aware racism exists both overtly and covertly. And there are certainly racist and sexist and otherwise unsavory players in the game.
I’m not convinced that the presence of racial markers in the game (“this is Africa, these are African hairstyles”) actually communicate a destructive or racist message. You’ve identified a lot of things that seem to suggest particular human cultures and groups, but the idea that Blizzard’s treatment of them somehow engenders racism I find hard to accept.
The presence of racial markers is not sufficient; I think you also have to demonstrate that the treatment of race is destructive or predjudicial, rather intentionally or not.
Blizzard is telling a story about race I parse as being pretty much in favor of the multicultural perspective and highly critical of white Western cultural and military conquest. You can’t tell that story or make that critique without using race as part of the story. And you can’t make it an allegory of human racial strife without using markers that suggest real-world human populations.
That’s what concerns me about arguing that merely using accents, appearances, and modes of dress are racist. That standard makes it impossible to address racism thematically in fiction.
It also makes cultural exchanges more difficult in the real world, because it means no one is allowed to acknowledge anyone else’s cultural identity.
01/12/10 11:18 PM
Hey all,
I’ve read through most of this thread and would first like to say that I’m excited to have found this discussion on the web; any social phenomenon as big as WoW deserves thoughtful analysis. I promise I’ll try not to over-indulge in my critique or turn this into a ‘Most Politically Correct Person of the Year’ competition.
Hopefully it isn’t too much of a tangent to bring up the issue of gender at this point, which was my first source of WoW-related discomfort. I’m sure most players have noticed that male characters in WoW are, generally, half-again as large as their female counterparts, with shoulders as big as basketballs. Besides being a little bizarre and unrealistic, I probably couldn’t argue convincingly that this is ‘sexist’ per se; certainly it reflects the dominant gender ideal in our culture (Big Strong Men and Helpless-but-Shapely Women).
Thudfactor might respond here with a gameplay argument like the one he uses above for race (or maybe not, Thudfactor, I don’t mean to put words in your mouth :-]): that female characters level just as fast and are subject to just the same gameplay mechanics that males are, that there is no in-built limitation for women in the World of Warcraft as there is in the real world. That’s a valid point! One of the pleasures of gaming- at least for me- is escaping to a novel and fantastic reality not subject to the same rules as this one (for example, I simply could not procure and ride a Skeletal Horse in Indiana, try as I might, but my Undead Mage can!).
As this thread has already highlighted, though, game worlds don’t exist totally apart from our own: they draw on, reflect and alter the real world in an attempt to create desirable ‘experiences’ for real people. I would argue that portraying males (at least the more human-like WoW species) as large and fit is probably Blizzard’s effort to indulge male players’ egos a bit, giving us, say, the pectorals of a Blood Elf without the hassle of an exercise regime. In this and many other ways, World of Warcraft reproduces characteristics of humans/human society selectively in order to make itself compelling; indeed, to make it MORE compelling than the real world (or else why would we pay $15/mo to leave this life for that one?).
What has brought us all to Thudfactor’s blog, it seems, is that while we enjoy much of what WoW has to offer, we are not all in total agreement with Blizzard on what it is that makes a ‘fantastic’ world. Coming back to the discussion of ‘race’ portrayals, I think we can also mostly agree that, whether or not the game consciously or explicitly promotes racial discrimination, it certainly refers to and relies on real-world stereotypes. Stereotypes, to my mind, are pretty much always a bad thing. They induce us to think of groups of people “other” than our own as being simpler and, I believe, less-fully human.
Unfortunately, just as stereotyping makes ‘understanding’ the world’s peoples a much simpler task, Blizzard apparently thought it would be a much simpler way of depicting the different races of WoW. Real people and cultures are simply too diverse, too complex, too nuanced to reflect in a videogame. Further, Blizzard’s WoW team is a relatively small and probably a pretty homogenous cross-section of the population whose limited experiences and imaginations influence and in turn limit the World of Warcraft. So for magic powers and huge muscles I turn to WoW, but for social advancement, I’d look elsewhere.
01/17/10 03:30 PM
I think I see where you’re coming from, Evan, but I’d argue that real people and cultures are too diverse and nuanced to reflect (accurately) in literature, historical studies, etc. All discussion of culture relies to a certain extent on simplification, and that’s fine—as long as we keep in mind that what we believe to be true in the general may not be true in the particular. (Or, in fact, that we can be mistaken about our generalities.) The sin in stereotyping lies not in the stereotyping itself but in allowing a stereotype to stand in for observed evidence, even when observed evidence contradicts the stereotype.
So I don’t think Blizzard’s decision to use cultural stereotypes as a foundation is unfortunate, I think it’s inescapable—not just for video games but for all of us. We can’t talk about “Canadians” or “women” or “the French” without falling back on this mechanism. (For a good discussion of this, see Wikipedia.)
Blizzard’s treatment of race and culture strike me as at least as nuanced as more established and long-running genre fiction. the quality of writing may be melodramatic to the point of unreadability, but the fact of the matter is that members of the races often violate the “stereotypical” expectations of those races; the political and interpersonal relationships are very nuanced and diverse indeed.
01/19/10 08:47 PM
@thudfactor, regarding Sad’s comments:
In light of Blizzard’s attention to backstory, you may be right to ask that someone like Sad “to demonstrate that the treatment of race is destructive or predjudicial.” That proof hasn’t yet come up in the discussion, but I’d like to propose it here.
I’m not a WoW player, though I’m familiar with fantasy games and settings in general. Some of the info we’ve seen here on the history of the WoW universe has been quite enlightening, in fact. But I’d like to point out that there’s more to it than simply Blizzard’s presentation. There’s also the issue of what people see, or how they read it (even though that isn’t necessarily Blizzard’s fault).
Even if, as some claim on other forums, the Horde are actually the good guys, and even if the cultural and (post)colonial references Blizzard makes are sensitive and thought-provoking, there are two other things to consider: first, the look of the Horde says something else; second, not everyone’s thoughts are going to be provoked.
On the first point, it seems clear that those who know what’s going on know that the orcs, trolls, etc. are not mindless savages. OK, fine. But look at them: hulking stances, sharp teeth, exotic skin colors, and clothing and accessories often associated with the “primitive” - these are all markers of the monstrous. The iconography is as much a story element as the narrative, and the members of the Horde *look* like monsters. While Blizzard may be hoping to undermine stereotpyes by teaching people not to judge a book by its cover, it’s been proven in other arenas that people in general tend not to get that kind of subtlety. For players, and perhaps even more for non-players who only casually come into contact with WoW - associating the imagery with ethnic or racial markers can easily make people think that that’s a natural relationship, that Africans, Caribbeans, or Native Americans might really be primitive, barbaric, or even monstrous if Blizzard presents them this way and it seems to be ok with everyone.
And that goes into the second point: Even Sad is willing to overlook this a bit because he’s just trying to be entertained. There are tons of players who aren’t going to give these issues a second thought, but whose prejudices and miseducation will be reinforced specifically for that reason. And don’t forget the people who don’t play but who hear about things secondhand. They have no idea how detailed and thoughtful the WoW backstory is, but they’ll be willing to form ideas based on the little bit of surface material they come in contact with - which includes monstrous, primitive, and barbaric creatures talking like Jamaicans or practicing voodoo.
The subtle racism effect that Sad brings up is indeed there to be seen. Blizzard’s story is fascinating, but the finer points are very likely lost on too many people.
01/19/10 09:21 PM
I think that’s a fair point, but I wonder what taking that position means for literature and popular culture. Are complexity and subtlety—generally considered artistic qualities one should strive for—then morally suspect? And does fiction have to be intensely didactic if it addresses moral issues?
In short, does everything have to read like it was written by Gene Roddenberry?
I’m also a little concerned about your assertion that the appearance of the monstrous or barbaric perpetuates people’s association of that appearance with barbaric or monstrous stereotypes of other cultures. If you’re going to take that stand, it seems to me you’d have to say that we need to norm our presentation of other cultures to a more “civilized,” less “barbaric” ideal. What is that ideal? A Wall Street business suit?
And (for example) are American Indians thus perpetuating people’s racist stereotypes of American Indians when they don traditional regalia and dance? After all, some people might look at the buckskins and feathers and think they’re barbaric…
01/26/10 04:21 AM
You’re right, of course - it’s generally a lot more complicated than that, and it should be.
But on the other hand: That’s exactly my point. Regardless of how well-nuanced the presentation is, some people don’t get that; they oversimplify based on surface appearances. That is: yes, some people might indeed look at the Native American buckskins and feathers and jump to a (probably already held) conclusion that they’re barbaric. And for our purposes, the opposite of barbaric doesn’t have to be Wall Street; it’s just as easily the idealized European Renaissance/medieval dress worn by many WoW avatars. Look, for example, at the weaponry: Horde weapons are much more likely to look rough-hewn, as if they were made with much less advanced methods than those that produced the finely-honed, sometimes machined look of the Alliance. I understand that they’re all equally deadly (especially from a gameplay point of view), but it’s just that kind of visual detail that contributes to the problem I’m talking about.
Perhaps more importantly, to your other points: no, I definitely don’t think everything should read like Gene Roddenberry (or George Lucas, or Tolkien, for that matter); again, I really like the tenor of the story Blizzard and its players have put together. However, is it so wrong to ask: “If there have to be such marked differences, why can’t the characters based on brown-skinned folks be the pretty ones for a change?”
02/05/10 04:11 AM
Yes, there is one major fallacy in both the article and the following response:
it assumes that all black people speak with a Haitian accent (Not even giving credit to the whole Caribbean, mind you!)
I, being a black alien, am rather offended by a couple comments here:
““Stay away from the voodoo, mon.” Gee, I thought, that’s odd. Why would trolls talk like black people?”
REALLY?!?! I do not speak like that, that is a horribly, horribly skewed perception of language. If they said “Man, stay away from that nasty-a** S***, them n***as be poppin caps in my tribe’s a** ” or something, and gave the troll NPCs names like “LaRhonda” or “Shenaynay” or “DeVon” and kept them in substandard accommodations, then I’d see a similarity and be offended. But they don’t. And I was born in trinidad, so I have a similar (but not Haitian) accent, and the trolls do not offend me. Plus, all classes have type of stereotype that they at least work partially on: Forsaken are goth,Blood elves are pricks, Humans are Americans (I bet my money that in Cataclysm, the human hunters use rifles). Even worse was:
” Trolls talk like black people because they’re superstitious jungle savages.”
I cannot comment here because I will lose my cool.
This next one was by the commenter:
“I think if I were black I’d be pleased to see that I can play a character who comes from my own tribal background”
Really? My tribal background is Igbo, and I see no Nigerians running on WoW. That is all I have time to say now.