Comments on: Artificially low health care prices http://www.thudfactor.com/national-politics/artificially-low-health-care-prices/ Move aside, and let the man go through. Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:52:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: ????olqu??o? http://www.thudfactor.com/national-politics/artificially-low-health-care-prices/comment-page-1/#comment-13895 ????olqu??o? Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:01:44 +0000 http://www.thudfactor.com/?p=2322#comment-13895 I have an HMO with a specific list of providers. They won't let me shop around, dammit! I have an HMO with a specific list of providers. They won’t let me shop around, dammit!

]]> By: lasloo http://www.thudfactor.com/national-politics/artificially-low-health-care-prices/comment-page-1/#comment-13886 lasloo Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:35:32 +0000 http://www.thudfactor.com/?p=2322#comment-13886 I think, though, we need to keep in mind that the solutions being bantered about isn't "socialized medicine", its "socialized insurance". Only the UK has true socialized medicine, all the other big industrialized nations like Germany and Canada and France have "socialized insurance". So, hospitals and doctors are still private and their is still a capitalist aspect to this. You'd still go to the doctors you trust to give you quality service. And even in the US, I don't see our current insurance companies going away... I only see a some government regulation (and funding) stating what the insurance companies can or cannot do... with the minimum being that everyone must be covered. The government should be able to tell the insurance companies and the doctors a range of reasonable prices for certain procedures. And that prices can't change because of age or health status. Essentially, the insurance companies will eventually need to turn into essentially non-profit centers. But note, I've met many execs of non-profit orgs making a ton of money themselves... so, non-profit doesn't equal non-capitalism... non-profit only really means that there is no set of outside stakeholders wanting their stocks to go higher. In any case, many other countries are doing this without spending as much as we do and have as good if not better care. I think Germany is probably the best example of a national health care system that we could easily model. None the less, I do predict that if Obama wins, we will be seeing a huge change in the health care system before 2012. I think, though, we need to keep in mind that the solutions being bantered about isn’t “socialized medicine”, its “socialized insurance”. Only the UK has true socialized medicine, all the other big industrialized nations like Germany and Canada and France have “socialized insurance”. So, hospitals and doctors are still private and their is still a capitalist aspect to this. You’d still go to the doctors you trust to give you quality service. And even in the US, I don’t see our current insurance companies going away… I only see a some government regulation (and funding) stating what the insurance companies can or cannot do… with the minimum being that everyone must be covered. The government should be able to tell the insurance companies and the doctors a range of reasonable prices for certain procedures. And that prices can’t change because of age or health status.

Essentially, the insurance companies will eventually need to turn into essentially non-profit centers. But note, I’ve met many execs of non-profit orgs making a ton of money themselves… so, non-profit doesn’t equal non-capitalism… non-profit only really means that there is no set of outside stakeholders wanting their stocks to go higher.

In any case, many other countries are doing this without spending as much as we do and have as good if not better care. I think Germany is probably the best example of a national health care system that we could easily model.

None the less, I do predict that if Obama wins, we will be seeing a huge change in the health care system before 2012.

]]> By: Dave H http://www.thudfactor.com/national-politics/artificially-low-health-care-prices/comment-page-1/#comment-13881 Dave H Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:16:09 +0000 http://www.thudfactor.com/?p=2322#comment-13881 Hiya Thud: These folks drive me nuts , too. But not because their diagnosis is wrong - I think they're right about the system being skewed and divorced from the final consumer. It's their "cure" that'll kill us - medical care cannot be delivered on a scheduled, reliable basis, unless you know that you'll be getting cancer in a few years or that your appendix is going to burst in a week. It's not the consumers that are overspending on medical care - well, OK, maybe a bit, like your example of the food stamps with lobster and filets. I'm sure it happens, but it's not the real problem. The real problem is on the supplier side - what possible motive do hospital, doctors, etc., have for keeping costs down when they know the patient won't have to pay a dime? How can they give reduced cost services to the un or underinsured when they're forced to negotiate huge rate reductions with the insurance companies to be able to take their patients? Having been a victim myself of some of the insanity of our current system of healthcare, I've written at some length on these topics in macRaven: http://www.haxton.org/weblog/Politics/isInsuranceTheProblem.html http://www.haxton.org/weblog/Home/brokeAndBroken.html In short, the "artifically low" healthcare prices mentioned are naught but an illusion, caused by the system itself. I just don't see a "national health insurance system" being any better - if you try to control the costs, the supply (and quality) drop, and if you try to maintain those the costs will go through the roof. Thanks for pointing out this inanity, and Be well, Dave H. Hiya Thud:
These folks drive me nuts , too. But not because their diagnosis is wrong - I think they’re right about the system being skewed and divorced from the final consumer. It’s their “cure” that’ll kill us - medical care cannot be delivered on a scheduled, reliable basis, unless you know that you’ll be getting cancer in a few years or that your appendix is going to burst in a week.
It’s not the consumers that are overspending on medical care - well, OK, maybe a bit, like your example of the food stamps with lobster and filets. I’m sure it happens, but it’s not the real problem.
The real problem is on the supplier side - what possible motive do hospital, doctors, etc., have for keeping costs down when they know the patient won’t have to pay a dime? How can they give reduced cost services to the un or underinsured when they’re forced to negotiate huge rate reductions with the insurance companies to be able to take their patients?
Having been a victim myself of some of the insanity of our current system of healthcare, I’ve written at some length on these topics in macRaven:

http://www.haxton.org/weblog/Politics/isInsuranceTheProblem.html

http://www.haxton.org/weblog/Home/brokeAndBroken.html

In short, the “artifically low” healthcare prices mentioned are naught but an illusion, caused by the system itself. I just don’t see a “national health insurance system” being any better - if you try to control the costs, the supply (and quality) drop, and if you try to maintain those the costs will go through the roof.

Thanks for pointing out this inanity, and
Be well,
Dave H.

]]> By: Missie http://www.thudfactor.com/national-politics/artificially-low-health-care-prices/comment-page-1/#comment-13879 Missie Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:50:42 +0000 http://www.thudfactor.com/?p=2322#comment-13879 The Hubbard quote makes me think of the stories you sometimes hear about people using food stamps to buy lobster and filet mignon. That is why in some states (I'm not sure if this is true everywhere), they've had to limit what people can buy with food stamps. For instance, the WIC program specifies what items and brands the money can be spent on. I was once in line behind a woman who was baffled about why she was allowed to buy grape juice or apple juice, but not apple/grape juice. Which is similar to health insurance companies that specify which doctors you can see and which procedures they will cover. I cannot get x-rays at my podiatrist's office, because insurance will not cover itm though they'll pay for the rest of my appointment. They make me go to a health testing center or a hospital instead. The Hubbard quote makes me think of the stories you sometimes hear about people using food stamps to buy lobster and filet mignon. That is why in some states (I’m not sure if this is true everywhere), they’ve had to limit what people can buy with food stamps. For instance, the WIC program specifies what items and brands the money can be spent on. I was once in line behind a woman who was baffled about why she was allowed to buy grape juice or apple juice, but not apple/grape juice.

Which is similar to health insurance companies that specify which doctors you can see and which procedures they will cover. I cannot get x-rays at my podiatrist’s office, because insurance will not cover itm though they’ll pay for the rest of my appointment. They make me go to a health testing center or a hospital instead.

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