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	<title>Comments on: Radical feminism v. marriage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thudfactor.com/what-the/radical-feminism-v-marriage/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thudfactor.com/what-the/radical-feminism-v-marriage/</link>
	<description>Move aside, and let the man go through.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Chrissy</title>
		<link>http://www.thudfactor.com/what-the/radical-feminism-v-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-2988</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrissy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 00:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thudfactor.com/wordpress/2006/05/15/radical-feminism-v-marriage/#comment-2988</guid>
		<description>Regarding the original statement about interfering in people's private living arrangements-- well, here's an example of how marriage-only proponents try to do just that all the time: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-15-unmarried-family_x.htm  I know you're aware of this stuff, and that you agree that it is stupid, but I guess attitudes like those in the article are why I'm not exactly outraged at the notion of dumping the institution itself.   

As for whether this is merely semantics...not entirely.  For example, I don't think pair-bonding arrangements should necessarily be given preference over other situations (e.g., why should spouses be exempt from testifying against one another, but not parents and children or siblings?)  Furthermore, I think that if someone has problems with the history and implications of marriage, I don't think it is right that the government should be able to make marriage the ONLY way to get certain rights and benefits, which it currently does.  

We're all really in agreement here.  But I guess, for me, the idea of eliminating marriage is kind of appealing not because I want to control other people, but because I wish they wouldn't try to control me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the original statement about interfering in people&#8217;s private living arrangements&#8211; well, here&#8217;s an example of how marriage-only proponents try to do just that all the time: <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-15-unmarried-family_x.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-15-unmarried-family_x.htm</a>  I know you&#8217;re aware of this stuff, and that you agree that it is stupid, but I guess attitudes like those in the article are why I&#8217;m not exactly outraged at the notion of dumping the institution itself.   </p>
<p>As for whether this is merely semantics&#8230;not entirely.  For example, I don&#8217;t think pair-bonding arrangements should necessarily be given preference over other situations (e.g., why should spouses be exempt from testifying against one another, but not parents and children or siblings?)  Furthermore, I think that if someone has problems with the history and implications of marriage, I don&#8217;t think it is right that the government should be able to make marriage the ONLY way to get certain rights and benefits, which it currently does.  </p>
<p>We&#8217;re all really in agreement here.  But I guess, for me, the idea of eliminating marriage is kind of appealing not because I want to control other people, but because I wish they wouldn&#8217;t try to control me.</p>
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		<title>By: Stentor</title>
		<link>http://www.thudfactor.com/what-the/radical-feminism-v-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-2968</link>
		<dc:creator>Stentor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 12:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thudfactor.com/wordpress/2006/05/15/radical-feminism-v-marriage/#comment-2968</guid>
		<description> itâ€™s not just about the people in the relationship but how those people are viewed by society that counts.

But if that's the problem -- and I quite agree that it is -- then simply removing the formal institution isn't going to fix it either.

In any event, it seems to me that this is mostly a semantic dispute about whether you call egalitarian pair-bonding "reformed marriage" or "a replacement for marriage."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>itâ€™s not just about the people in the relationship but how those people are viewed by society that counts.</p>
<p>But if that&#8217;s the problem &#8212; and I quite agree that it is &#8212; then simply removing the formal institution isn&#8217;t going to fix it either.</p>
<p>In any event, it seems to me that this is mostly a semantic dispute about whether you call egalitarian pair-bonding &#8220;reformed marriage&#8221; or &#8220;a replacement for marriage.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chrissy</title>
		<link>http://www.thudfactor.com/what-the/radical-feminism-v-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-2963</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrissy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 21:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thudfactor.com/wordpress/2006/05/15/radical-feminism-v-marriage/#comment-2963</guid>
		<description>I don't really see how there would need to be "oppressive legal enforcement"--I mean, unless we're talking about legal authorities storming churches and halls to halt ceremonies (actually, I can think of a couple of times that might not have been a bad idea :)).  Wouldn't the state simply stop issuing marriage licenses?  I don't really see that as seriously oppressive, in and of itself.  

I don't know if Amanda is purposely trying to insult or bait married people.  I think a lot of people obviously interpreted it that way.  I took her comments to mean that she feels that no matter how much we work to change laws and attitudes to make marriage egalitarian, we'll never really be able to do so, because it's not just about the people in the relationship but how those people are viewed by society that counts. 

If it is just about insulting married people, I don't condone that, but perhaps she got tired of the constant "Marriage is right and proper and the only way" crap that we constantly get fed by religion, government, media, and (some) family and friends.  I would think married people would get tired of that, too, actually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really see how there would need to be &#8220;oppressive legal enforcement&#8221;&#8211;I mean, unless we&#8217;re talking about legal authorities storming churches and halls to halt ceremonies (actually, I can think of a couple of times that might not have been a bad idea :)).  Wouldn&#8217;t the state simply stop issuing marriage licenses?  I don&#8217;t really see that as seriously oppressive, in and of itself.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if Amanda is purposely trying to insult or bait married people.  I think a lot of people obviously interpreted it that way.  I took her comments to mean that she feels that no matter how much we work to change laws and attitudes to make marriage egalitarian, we&#8217;ll never really be able to do so, because it&#8217;s not just about the people in the relationship but how those people are viewed by society that counts. </p>
<p>If it is just about insulting married people, I don&#8217;t condone that, but perhaps she got tired of the constant &#8220;Marriage is right and proper and the only way&#8221; crap that we constantly get fed by religion, government, media, and (some) family and friends.  I would think married people would get tired of that, too, actually.</p>
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		<title>By: thudfactor</title>
		<link>http://www.thudfactor.com/what-the/radical-feminism-v-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-2962</link>
		<dc:creator>thudfactor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 20:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thudfactor.com/wordpress/2006/05/15/radical-feminism-v-marriage/#comment-2962</guid>
		<description>It strikes me as perfectly reasonable to extend benefits of marriage to people living in other partnership arrangements. I'm going to vote for that every time. If that's what Amanda means, then I got no beef. 

But killing marriage as a social institution -- because it "entraps women" -- would almost certainly require oppressive legal enforcement. On the one hand, Amanda seems to recognize that it's not realistic; on the other hand, she claims arguing for recrating marriage to fit our current society is "mealy-mouthed liberalism." I don't think she's in policy-wonk mode, I think she's just trying to insult married people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me as perfectly reasonable to extend benefits of marriage to people living in other partnership arrangements. I&#8217;m going to vote for that every time. If that&#8217;s what Amanda means, then I got no beef. </p>
<p>But killing marriage as a social institution &#8212; because it &#8220;entraps women&#8221; &#8212; would almost certainly require oppressive legal enforcement. On the one hand, Amanda seems to recognize that it&#8217;s not realistic; on the other hand, she claims arguing for recrating marriage to fit our current society is &#8220;mealy-mouthed liberalism.&#8221; I don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s in policy-wonk mode, I think she&#8217;s just trying to insult married people.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrissy</title>
		<link>http://www.thudfactor.com/what-the/radical-feminism-v-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-2961</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrissy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 20:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thudfactor.com/wordpress/2006/05/15/radical-feminism-v-marriage/#comment-2961</guid>
		<description>Actually, single people might gain rights.  For example, everyone might be able to designate a beneficiary of their Social Security benefits, rather than the current system limiting them to a legal spouse (sometimes a former spouse) and/or minor children.  Additionally, health care benefits (employer-provided or otherwise) might become available to more people, so that single people or those whose partners have their own coverage could insure their elderly parents, siblings, roommates, etc.  Currently, domestic partner benefits are only available from progressive companies that choose to offer them, and are then taxed as income (the same coverage for a spouse and children is not taxed).

Yes, yes, the post is about the Absolutely! Shocking! notion of  eliminating marriage, but I really do think the idea of removing marital status from benefit distribution and the taxation model is worth considering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, single people might gain rights.  For example, everyone might be able to designate a beneficiary of their Social Security benefits, rather than the current system limiting them to a legal spouse (sometimes a former spouse) and/or minor children.  Additionally, health care benefits (employer-provided or otherwise) might become available to more people, so that single people or those whose partners have their own coverage could insure their elderly parents, siblings, roommates, etc.  Currently, domestic partner benefits are only available from progressive companies that choose to offer them, and are then taxed as income (the same coverage for a spouse and children is not taxed).</p>
<p>Yes, yes, the post is about the Absolutely! Shocking! notion of  eliminating marriage, but I really do think the idea of removing marital status from benefit distribution and the taxation model is worth considering.</p>
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