Why justification is not the issue.
April 8, 2003
I’d like to say again how much I appreciate Trace, Cameron, and Marc over at “Snark”:http://www.arakna.net/blog/ . We may be on different sides, more or less, politically speaking, but they never stoop to name-calling and argument distortion the way so many conservatives have recently. I can argue with them and not fear being called a saddam-loving surrender-monkey for having a different opinion. As a result I feel I might actually be able to convince them of my opinion — and I’m more likely to listen and embrace theirs as well. So, hats off to Snark.
Now, on to answer “the question she posed”:http://www.arakna.net/blog/archives/000494.html#000494 about support for the war in Iraq.
Trace wants to know what evidence could be uncovered or what could happen to make those of us who “have problems with the war” feel the war is justifiable. The way the question is framed, I think, demonstrates a lack of understanding about what some of the “problems with the war” are. Those opposed to the war fall into five different camps — and most of the issues have precious little to do with “justification.”
These four groups are:
# War-protester socialite hippy-wannabee hangers-on. These people are protesting the war to be all political and stuff to try to get into so-and-so’s pants. You should dismiss them. I do.
# Straight-up religious or philosophical pacifists. Pragmatic arguments don’t impress them; they would rather die than kill. There is never any justification for these people. I salute and admire their dedication to their ideals. But for the most part there’s no point talking to them because they find offensive the suggestion that their actions should be shaped by events in the real world.
# Folks who wanted proof because they believe Saddam’s possession of WMD are in doubt. These are the people to whom “justifcation” for the war is a central issue. Presumably the discovery of WMD will change the minds of the doubters.
# Folks who wanted proof because they believe in due process. It may seem like a formality, but such people believe due process is an American Ideal and not just a law that only applies to Americans. They will see the war itself as an unjustifiable breaking with this American Ideal to the extent they value this Ideal over their own lives.
# Finally, there is the “justifiable, but not like this” crowd. The issue of “justification” has no bearing on our anti-war stance. Instead, we are concerned that:
* Bush’s manner has alienated our allies (and has, in fact, alienated us).
* Bush’s method will not increase our national security but decrease it.
* Bush’s motivation is not the elimination of WMD and liberation of the Iraqi people, and therefore the task will not hold his attention long enough for him to actually achieve these ends.
In other words, we’re more concerned with the *means* Bush has chosen to achieve his (purported) goals.
Futhermore, we think the Bush Administration’s brute-force cowboy posturing has squandered our resources, demonstrated the weaknesses in our defense network, and will ultimately lead to more instability and more death than careful diplomacy and sneaky political manipulation would have. The costs — in international prestige, abandonment of our princples, and human lives — have far outweighed the potential benefits. And even those benefits are not close to being assured!
There are many ways to skin a cat, and some of us fear Bush has chosen the method most destructive and least assured of success.
What would change my mind?
If the Iraq *is* effectively liberated and rebuilt into a democracy, I can admit that Bush’s actions were right. If terrorist organizations are intimidated enough to cease or reduce activities, I will admit that Bush’s war policy was effective. If Bush’s actions reduce terrorist enrollment, then I will feel safer because of what Bush did.
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April 8th, 2003 at 12:15 pm
I’m part of that last crowd. Just thought I’d share. Another good post, John.
I’ve had the same problem with many discussions along those lines - too often people attempt to convince me of their position under the belief that my perspective falls into any category except for the last one you mentioned. Its easy to pigeonhole people into the first few categories, but the last one requires a bit more thought to engage.
April 8th, 2003 at 12:40 pm
Yeah, the question could have been framed a bit better and it was mostly borne of hearing a lot of people say they would support the war if “such-n-such” happens. If we find WMD’s. If the new Iraq is a true democracy. If it sends a strong message to terrorist groups in the region. And so on.
What I seem to be getting from these answers is that we should have tried other means of resolution before it became guns a’blazing time? And a lot of mistrust for Dubya’s motives. *grin* I can certainly understand that, though I’m willing to give Bush the benefit of the doubt…for the moment.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. As is the usual, it’s given me plenty of food for thought.
April 8th, 2003 at 3:13 pm
After thinking about it a bit, I wanted to add one more end result to that which would change my mind somewhat about the means by which the war was conducted. If after all is said and done, these same post-war conditions (democracy in Iraq, reduced terrorism, etc.) bring about a similar realization in those nations which were our allies prior to all of this, I would definitely feel that this was all the right decision for Bush and Company to make, under the circumstances. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is either going to be a large-scale success, or a large-scale mistake, and that’s a hell of a gamble to make with so many lives at stake.
April 9th, 2003 at 7:55 am
Excellent, excellent post John!
April 10th, 2003 at 9:59 am
I’m a bit of each of the last two. I’m a realist, grounded in the fact that the Middle East isn’t our sandbox with which we can spread the new Dominoes. It ain’t gonna happen.
I’m as surprised as anyone about the swiftness of the collapse of the regime; I truly expected more, and maybe we’ll see it in Tikrit and elsewhere in Baghdad and the smaller cities, but maybe we won’t. Very few people ever said Hussein didn’t deserve to go — it was all in the manner with which Bush and the neocons pushed this.
I hate Rumsfeld, and wonder why Colin Powell hasn’t resigned yet, since Rummy seems to be SecState as well as SecDef.